fe_male | memeboxing

[ She's actually probably doing better than she thinks she is. He hasn't left mod-conversation, hasn't blocked her out or dismissed her completely, and isn't entirely averse to looking at her, but is sort of avoiding it nonetheless. Honestly, considering it's the first real talk he's ever had about it in the last three or four years? It's going pretty well.

But, man, it's like all that eye-avoidance was building up to right now, because at that suggestion, he freezes, then looks over at her straight on for a few long seconds. It's pretty obvious that the suggestion frightens him, with the not blinking until he finally does break eye contact and looks more at the desk, the wider eyes, and basically everything anyone who knows anything about body language would pick up on. When he looks away - and it's not completely away this time, he's still mostly facing her - it's also obvious that he's vaguely considering it. Which was why it was so scary in the first place, and still is. Considering it means imagining it and running through the possibilities and gauging the outcomes, but he keeps getting stuck on the imagining; it bleeds into the remembering so much faster than it should, and then it's just hard to think entirely. ]

Did it help you?

[ She meets that gaze as steadily as she can, firm and sure because even a hint of uncertainty now would be fatal, and because she is sure. It might not work for him - everyone's mind is different, reacts to things in different ways - but at the moment it's the best shot she knows of and it's worked before. ]

Yes.

[ Whether to elaborate or not - she hesitates, considers how to put it. There's specifics she doesn't enjoy going into and doesn't think would be helpful, but some more clarification would be good. She can guess what he's doing right now, and she wants to pull him out of that. ] There were things I couldn't look at and I need to be able to, so. It wasn't fun and it wasn't easy, but it was worth it in the end.

[ The fact that she answers yes, that takes it instantly from an abstract, ambiguous maybe, into a totally different realm of actualization. Personal experience trumps the theoretical every time, for him, in situations like this. He doesn't trust the untested, not with his mind, not with his - well, his metaphorical heart. Obviously exceptions for the real one have been made.

And right now he doesn't even want to bunny trail off into 'what couldn't you look at', because he can't keep up with a conversation like that right now and doesn't feel like having one in the first place, and he's still working out how he does feel about the proposal she's just put forth. It's basically just terrifying, but he's sure there's more than that. There's got to be, because he's tired of doing this, and maybe she's right and maybe she's not but she has a decent point either way and that's one of the most dangerous places to be in. Grey, grey, grey, but someone's talking sense - it doesn't help you decide what you're going to do at all. ] How long did it take?

[ She rather thought it might help. Still, does that make it cheating? She doesn't want him to think that because it worked for her it will always work. He's not the type to blindly take one thing as truth for everything, but this sort of topic tends to put blinders on people and make them less certain.

Yeah, no, she's leaving things there vague on purpose. There's no need to go chasing specifics or otherwise mess with things. If they ever do have to have that conversation, it's not now. It would only muddy the waters now. ] It only took a few times to get over the worst of it. From there, it was a slow gradual climb upwards.

[ Maybe? But I doubt that even when/if he looks back at this moment that he'd consider it to be such. He's not dumb; he's totally aware that out of basically everything, stuff that impacts from person to person has the most variables to contend with, but it doesn't stop it being comforting when someone whose opinion and experiences you trust and respect vouches for something that's worrying you, even if they're also the source of the initial suggestion.

That makes him pause again, for a little while. Honestly, this is just a very drawn out conversation in general. ] I don't know if I can... Handle that either. [ Read: 'I really, really don't want to run the risk of making things worse.' ]

[ She really dislikes this entire scenario, basically. She constantly feels like she's overthinking it or underthinking it or not getting it right, and she knows intellectually this is actually going somewhat decently - he doesn't have to accept this suggestion, it's a big and good step just to have him talk to her this openly. Or this close to openly. It's just really hard with this much heavy negativity in the air to feel like she's actually doing well. ]

It's up to you, what you think you can or can't handle. [ A pause of her own, because this really is a drawn out conversation in terms of them needing to stop and think over what they're going to say or consider what was just said. ] I'm going to find a way to help you. As many options as it takes. And one of them will work, and it will get better.

[ He's quiet, yet again, after she's finished speaking. He's taking time to run everything around in his head - numbers, equations, variables, past attempts tempered with the future attempts and the faith he has in her to never ever try and hurt him deliberately. Considering the methods he's been employing to handle things, and moving with them onto a proposed method, and then that held up against the original, the source of the problem, to see how it compares.

So it takes him a while, but he does reply. It's not the end of the conversation just yet. ] We can try it.

But you don't have to do that. I mean... [ What do you mean, Tony? ] I... Appreciate the help, but sometimes things can't... [ Maybe he doesn't know what he means. ]

[ She can wait. She's good at waiting, as this conversation has made very clear. It's an ability learned on stakeouts and with her bond and his quiet evasion and in prison, and here it's serving her in very good stead. She can wait even when the results aren't worth it, and in this case they are very very worth it.

She doesn't really visibly react to him agreeing, because that's not out of the woods yet. It's a chance at helping him, but one that she can't be certain will help. She won't start feeling better about the whole affair until she knows one way or another, can be positive that he's feeling better, that he can handle this more easily. Her ultimate goal is to make it so that he's able to handle everything by himself, without help, and not need her help at any point. Not because she doesn't want to be here, but because more than anyone she knows the impermanence of things. People die, or are forced out of your life, and she wants to know that no matter what he will be okay. ]

I know I don't have to. [ It would be peremptory if she wasn't so carefully moderating how she says things, because of course she doesn't have to. She doesn't have to do anything. ] I want to do what I can. I know not everything can be fixed. But most things can be improved.

[ At least Tony doesn't tend to go for quiet, unobtrusive evasion so much as 'Hey! Look over here! Look! I'm avoiding the subject!' kind of evasion. That probably helps a little bit with things.

He would argue that actually right now he doesn't need help either because he's totally capable of functioning like this, he's functioned like this for years, and in other, similar states for different reasons for even longer. He'd argue that, but it would be sort of half-assed, because it's blatantly incorrect and he doesn't have the energy to put into any real defensiveness right now. ]

Some things, anyway. Hard not to improve on all this, I guess.

[ It definitely seriously helps. He may think it's distracting, but really it's just alerting her to the fact that there is a problem if she hasn't already noticed. It makes her a lot more confident in knowing that if there's a problem, she'll realize it sooner rather than later.

As for that, there's a difference between functioning and living and yeah, exactly, it's blatantly incorrect. She would be very unimpressed with that particular argument. ]

The only things that can't be improved are the things outside your control. Circumstances, surroundings. If you do want to try, obviously I'm willing to help.

[ Yeah, the day he learns that all that avoidance actually clues her in to things more than not, he'll... probably not actually be able to stop doing it, but he'll be annoyed with himself when he notices that he is.

Reasons he does actually keep some of his thoughts internal. ]

How would - how would we do it?

[ She doesn't intend on ever mentioning that to him. It seems like a not great idea, because she's pretty sure he'd at least try to stop and that would get frustrating fast. She happens to think it's a good thing, her being able to read things from him.

And there's the million dollar question, isn't it. She's come up with a few options and discarded them in her head, trying to determine what would work best, what's the most likely to function as a means of helping. ]

Whatever you think would work best. I don't want to - you know best what would be most likely to cause more problems than the obvious.

[ What she's saying is true, but for reasons she's not entirely privy to, it's entirely implausible. He's not even to the point yet where he can consider a handful of scenarios and pick which one is least damaging and most likely to work - all he'll do is get bogged down in the scenarios.

So when he looks at her, again, finally, it's not like he did when she first voiced the idea but more like a visible placing of his trust in her expertise here. It's very thin, tentative, tightrope walking trust, with a thick, dense cloud of 'But I'll need so much help, I don't know how to do this.' surrounding it.

And this is effectively what he was hiding from her. This brokenness, this fear, all of this anxiety and inefficiency. She managed to wade through the rest of everything else and now he's more or less one hundred percent open to her, and while that should be terrifying, all he's feeling is a little numb. Like it'll hit later, but right now while it's happening that would be too much to handle. Self-defense mechanisms - Tony's built out of the things. ]

I can't - think... of them. I just loop in the memories, it doesn't ever - it doesn't go that well. [ oh well nice idea maybe some other time ] I don't care how we... - as long as there's no water. We can't start with water.

[ It's a lot of openness indeed, but it's what she was asking for and this - she knows this. The brokenness, the fear, she knows it inside out. It's almost reassuring in its familiarity, and that sounds bad but it's more that all the evasion and the refusal she didn't know what to do with but she knows a lot more about how to handle this, right now.

Well, somewhat more. She's still not anywhere near certain but her calm and surety is a little less faked now. ]

No water, no, I don't think that would really help. It's okay, you don't need to think about it. I'll walk you through it. [ A pause, giving him a moment, and then she reaches out and strokes her thumb along the back of one of his hands, a calming gesture hopefully. ] The first step is somewhere you feel safe and in control. The shop, I'd guess. Maybe your bedroom?

[ It's hilarious that she can't get to this part confidently but can handle it once it's here no problem. Mostly no problem. Sort of. Most people are the other way around, i.e.: I want all of the things! and then But how do I hold all these things? And right now while he's definitely less convinced of things than he was before - and that wasn't a whole lot to begin with - he's also without the next part, the handling of it. His went more in reverse, with the overwhelming part just followed by even more paralysing overwhelming parts.

He thinks about that, because the instinctive reactions - again - are highly contradictory. He's had a near-constant state of hyperawareness for a long time now, which doesn't lend to feeling super safe anywhere. He also doesn't want to ruin any of the handful of places he does feel at ease. The workshop is sanctuary, so it's immediately out. He supposes the bedroom isn't a terrible idea - clearly the sleep/interrupted sleep cycles that happen there are a decent indication of balance. Maybe. He doesn't know. ]

Yeah. That one. [ He's far less opposed to the gesture than he might have been just a few minutes ago. He doesn't react a whole lot - there's enough other things begging for reaction right now; it's not the time to start paying attention to them - but that just means he doesn't pull away anymore. ]

[ About as close to no problem as anything is likely to get in this particular scenario anyways. But yes, it's easier once she uncovers what she knows is beneath. It's a matter of what she's accustomed to. The people who had needed an empath's help hadn't come to her until they were already at this point.

The possibility of ruining something that does work for him is one of the ones that concerns her most. She hates that she's going to have to help personally, because there's always the chance it backfires and he can't look at her anymore, and what then? She doesn't know. But it has to be tried, for his sake. ]

Okay then. [ She stands, moves closer to his chair. ] Come with me? [ Certain to make it a request, leaving it up to him still. Every motion he makes has to be his choice. ]

[ See, and if anything, it's the fact that she is an empath that made him want to hide it even more from her. Not because he was more worried she'd find out - even he was aware of the cold reality that eventually, on a night like tonight, there were just aspects of hiding something that fundamental and living with another person that don't allow for cohabitation - but because he was worried that she would be more sensitive to it on a purely empathic level. That whatever aspects of it he could actually, legitimately not handle, would radiate out and seep into her shields through whatever unbonded connection they managed to have. While he doesn't ask for help well, if at all, it was fear that his problems would wind up hurting her that was an almost larger motivating factor. Almost.

And oddly, that aspect of 'ruining a good thing' hasn't even occurred to him. The idea that if this doesn't work, he'll have transferred some of all this bullshit onto her - it's not even figments. He's not thinking like that at all, so it's probably good that one of them is, just in case. If that were to happen, it would take him completely by surprise. (Although her apparently having been prepared for it and having obviously not told him about that possibility would probably just make him angry, on top of being angry it didn't work, on top of being frightened of the issue in the first place... That would be very bad in general.)

He's gone back to watching her carefully, now she's in motion, and while he deliberates for one second, he's very aware that if he stops to do that too much, he'll have enough time to talk himself out of it, which would just mean never doing it, ever. So he stands just a second after she asks, nodding slightly. ] Okay.

[ That's an instinct she can understand, all too well. When problems are this big and this deep, it's easy to imagine all the ways someone else would be affected by revealing them and decide not to reveal them. It would be too much, they wouldn't know how to handle it, it would hurt them to know. There are infinite amount of reasons to not seek out help, and only a few very important ones to ask for it.

She's just going to have to hope a great deal that it doesn't backfire on her like that at all, because she's gambling a great deal on this - it's her happiness she considers at stake should his brain decide that she's caused problems and therefore she's part of the problem. She doesn't really know what she'd do, but she has to try. She has to. There isn't any other choice, here, because this is the sort of thing that takes it's time building but eventually crushes you under it's weight. It has to be fixed somehow.

She moves backwards a little bit, still watching him, her movements steady and measured as she starts to walk towards the stairs. She knows the spaces of the workshop inside and out by now, it's not hard at all to walk it backwards and watching him. ]

[ A few very important ones that are so important and glaring that even in the midst of 'oh I can't bother other people with this' you still doubt even that decision and wind up leaving bread crumbs all the way to where you are so that they wind up being involved anyway. Important reasons she's quite good at pointing out.

His brain is doing a lot right now that's out of his own control, but at this point she's such an ingrained aspect of life that he could likely fistfight whatever subconscious thing would be happening there and make it listen to him. He's very good at rationalizing - it's how he lives with some of the choices he makes - and effectively anything he actually takes the time and effort to put all that mental powerhousing into. Even if it's himself. That phoenix metaphor holds true in a myriad of manners.

He's still following her. He's made the decision and he'll stick with it unless something spooks him again and he runs off. It's fairly antsy movement, eyes not settling on any one thing so much as looking at her and then the ground and then things on the wall and then maybe back at her and then the wall and then her and the floor, the things. ]

[ She has to be good at pointing them out - who else is going to? Pepper or Rhodey, maybe, but he's managed to successfully dodge them for a while. There's no guarantee they'd be able to make him listen.

That's what she's banking on, but there's a lot less certainty in her own evaluation of how much she's a part of his life than he has because she's bad at realizing that, bad at being able to understand her place in things and what exactly it is she means to him. It's - complicated. Everything tends to be like that with them, though, doesn't it?

Guiding him by hand would she thinks be a bad idea, but she watches him closely and stays in his immediate orbit, prominently leaving the door to the bedroom open after they step inside. An escape route, should his brain at some point decide he needs one. Now that they're both here comes the next step, though. ] It would be best if however we do it, I'm not on top of you or trapping you in any way.

[ Right now he's at all states of high alert, so it's probably a better idea to avoid touching him altogether until they're ready to actually get started. He's already having a hard time working out whether he wants to be able to see the door - which would likely mean having her between him and it - or whether he wants to be closer to the door, even though that would mean having it out of his immediate field of vision.

Literally everything about them is complicated in stages and avenues beyond what any naturally occurring thing ought to be able to find.

At any rate, he sort of belatedly nods to indicate he's still listening to her, although he's a little preoccupied taking breaths that are slightly too big and trying to figure out all of these adrenal reactions happening to process it too much beyond that level. ] That'll make the positioning awkward.

[ If he mentions that, she'll try to figure out a way that he can see it and not have her between him and it. There's probably a way, even if it'll only make the positioning more awkward. It can be sorted. She doesn't really care what she has to do, here. She's gotten this far and she's not going to give up or gain any qualms or reservations now. Whatever it takes to help him, she'll do it.

It's kind of impressive that at any point in time they managed to come together long enough to start establishing enough of a relationship to get past the complications. ]

Little bit, maybe, but we can figure it out. [ She sits down on the side of the bed, offers him her hand. ] It'll be okay.

[ He likely won't until he's already starting to flip out about it. Right now he feels like he's revealed plenty enough vulnerability and weakness and he's starting to feel like he's leaking or something and he doesn't realize that saying it to her now, relatively calmly, would be better than blurting it out after it's clearly started to really bother him.

Yeahhhhhhhh. They're a very special pair.

That too, he eyes first, evaluating, sizing up, then slowly takes it, lowering to sit on the edge of the bed, about three-quarters facing her. ] Yeah. Yeah, it- [ Breathe. Breathe. You still can, so breathe. ] It'll be fine.

[ It would definitely be far better, really, but she'll consider it a victory that he's here sitting on the bed with her as she pulls one leg up onto the bed and angles her body towards him, fingers warm around his as she just holds onto his hand for a bit, lets him settle into this space. She doesn't want him to necessarily psyche himself up for it, but she does want him to have the time to sit right here and adjust to it for a bit before she tries to add anything new to it. ]

Do you trust me?

[ It's not an academic question. She knows he does to pretty strong extents, but this is - something else. And regardless, she wants the confirmation of it said out loud, for both of their benefits, wants him to remind himself that he does, along with the almost as important motive that she doesn't want him to simply sit here and think about what they're about to do. She'll direct their conversation, then, for both of their sakes', work slowly on guiding him into this. ]

[ She has so many good ideas, really. It's amazing how many good ideas she has, and how well she can figure him out, because psyching himself up for this and dwelling on what's about to happen are both exactly what he's going to do if left to his own thoughts and patterns, and while neither one of them is particularly helpful, they happen to be even worse in that they actively prevent the other from progressing, while simultaneously not letting the other cease. He's very good at closed-circuits.

So the question sort of takes him by surprise, for a number of reasons, but most of them flutter right out on the pitter-pat of his too-fast heartbeat as he looks at her again before replying. ]

Yeah. [ And he doesn't sound surprised so much as he does like he's reminding himself, just like she was hoping. He trusts her. He doesn't have to worry about this turning into something out of his control again, not when she's actually attempting to wrest control back for him out of the chaos. He trusts her to help him like that, and it's scary, and it's new, but it's the truth. ] Yeah, I trust you.

yay?

yes yay also holy shit impressive

what's impressive

the sheer amount of comments

tbf i think like at least 250 are from that one damn kissing meme at ex

lmao yes yes they are

let's repeat the mantra: never ever never ever

it's ok i'm here to help remind you should you ever consider it again

it was genuinely fun though

stop reconvincing yourself you know that's a bad idea

okayyyyyyyyy ;;

it'll be okay i promise

okay i trust you

i can be responsible for you then

okaaaaaaaaay

<3<3 /pets

/purrs

if you're going to purr i'm just going to keep petting you

i sense a cyclical thing happening here

at least it is a very awesome cycle

this is true

/pets forever

/keeps purring

/falls asleep on

we can just say we've been sleeping for the last... five days.