Oh. [ He's quiet for a moment, but it's not out of evasion - it's pretty obvious that he's doing quick mental scans of recent and long term memory for anything like that. ] No it's just - just when I first wake up.
Okay. [ She's threading her way through as carefully as she can, trying to figure out how best to address it, how to help him. ] And you said where you think are shifts? Is there someone that's more regular than others?
[ Threading and yet pulling every piece of information out of him gently and intently. He doesn't want to be telling her any of this, but he can't seem to not do it. ] It just depends on the dream. Well. Space, more often. Dark and cold shifts to dark and cold though, it doesn't really matter.
[ That's her hoped for end, that she can get all the information she needs, that he needs her to know. Even if he doesn't particularly want her to have it right now. ] Do you wake up thinking you're where the nightmares were happening?
It's not you. [ Instinctive, utterly sure. ] It's not your fault, the brain isn't even meant to have to handle the sort of stress you've been put under. The problem isn't you, and we'll find a way to fix it.
[ That would be more helpful if he hadn't met a team full of other people who had the same and more stress than he's ever dealt with, in his opinion, who were all handling it just fine, in his opinion. As far as he knows, anyway, but he can't really be blamed for things he doesn't know. Shit, Max herself has had just as much if not more and she seems functional by him. So he doesn't totally jive with her statement, he just doesn't know what to say to it. ] Yeah, okay.
[ He doesn't know what happens when they sleep, or the moments when they think nobody's watching. He puts up a pretty good image of with it most of the time himself - she wouldn't know anything if she didn't live and sleep with him, if she wasn't intimately aware at most moments of his presence.
As for her, well. She's had 10 years to become very, very good at a facade of being well, and his presence has helped make that not entirely a front for the first time in that entire stretch. ] I mean it. If anyone thought less of you for this they'd be idiots. You're strong to have done this well.
[ He doesn't know what happens in those moments, but he doesn't like to theorize without facts or evidence, and from his perspective the point stands that he has no concrete proof to indicate moments like that exist. It's ludicrous to imagine they don't, because nobody's perfect and he's well and intimately aware of that, of precisely how imperfect and flawed most people can be, but without the certainty that they do, the possibility that they don't is enough.
That's just another thing he doesn't know how to reply to though. He doesn't feel strong. He feels brittle, and loose, like all his screws and bolts have been undone just to the point of falling off, and too much rattling, too much exertion in any which way, will have him falling into parts on the floor. ] People are idiots anyway - they don't need to think that to fall into the category. [ So maybe that's deflection, but at least that's relatively normal from him. ]
[ Maybe sometime she'll speak to someone else in the Avengers, get them to hold a seminar in which they all stop pretending to be paragons of having-it-together, because she's positive they don't all. Steve and Bruce especially, them - she sees it in their eyes and their movements.
The fact that he feels like that and keeps going anyways? She thinks that's a pretty fair amount of strength right there. ] That's true. [ But she's not up for being deflected right now. ] I know you don't believe me, but the fact remains - you're still standing. And maybe it's shaky, but you are. That takes a lot.
also he'd be mildly mortified by a seminar like that ]
It takes a lot more than it should. [ Ugh, god, this is. This is exhausting. This is exhausting and he's already in bed and good the cap is still on this bottle of water so there's nothing stopping him from taking advantage of the fact that they're sitting on his bed and letting himself just sort of fall backwards to lie on his back. ] Now I'm lying. I mean, reclining, not being untruthful. [ Although. Hah. But not in that moment, anyway. He's not tired, not to the point of sleeping, he's just tired in other senses. He'll sit back up in a little while, probably be up the rest of the night regardless of all this, because he can't process while he's asleep and he has quite a bit to process. ]
then she'll do it in private and get them to talk to him so that he stops thinking like this.
There's a short pause, a space in which she just watches him with an expression that manages to achieve a fair amount of neutrality for the quiet compassion on it, and then she reaches out and starts running her hand through his hair. ] I can't make any promises, but. I'm going to do my best to help make it take less.
[ nope still mortified and also potentially pissed off that she went and talked to them about all of this because he's already an ordinary, very flawed person on a team of legitimate demi-gods and superheroes and he doesn't really feel like he needs to give any of them any more doubt to his ability and right to be there.
That's probably going to keep him lying down a little longer though. Her touch is generally quite arresting, and he's not sure how it works that you can become addicted to something so simple, he just knows that it never feels like he';; be able to get enough of it. ] You do a lot in that respect as it is.
[ goddamnit what is she going to have to do, because at that point she's considering just like tying him down for the sake of informing him of precisely how much he is worth to her. maybe that would work.
Touch is a luxury, in some respects. Especially when you're them, and there are a very, very few people in the world that casual touch is acceptable from. She knows she will never be tired of him touching her. ] I'm glad. Maybe I can one-up myself though.
[ .... that would probably work, yeah. I'm just seeing 'oh tony c'mon i want to tie you down tonight and here's a gag because you can't talk this time and by the way now that you're quiet and sitting still i wanted to make sure you understood how much you meant to me'. Can we do that. I feel like that would be hilarious.
Tony's still trying to get used to casual touch without expectation as something that can be considered 'normal'. He's not sure how to take it in that vein of things. ] Probably. I don't put much past you.
[ I want to do this we're doing this. It can be the next one we start. Let's start it now. Let's do everything.
Max and touch gets very complicated sometimes, because there are still moments all this time later when she becomes convinced that she's back in a cell, her mind creating people there with her just to keep her from completely losing it, and touch is how she remembers that she's not.
She could never touch them.
So touch is a means of reassurance of everything being okay, and touch that comes from care is a luxury that she's denied herself for a long time because there was no one she trusted enough to allow it who was also willing to allow themselves the danger of caring. It's almost never truly casual to her, but she's slowly learning to let it mean nothing in particular other than that she's happy he's here. She leans down to press her lips to his forehead, keeps running her hand through his hair as she sits back up. ] Totally shouldn't.
[ Tony's own relationship with touch isn't complicated in that sense. It's never been something that either was or wasn't there in terms of possibility in as much as it's simply deceptive in its significance, and craved all the more for its more-often-than-not insincerity. Touch, in his experience, has been ephemeral in both meaning and frequency, and he's not sure which part of it he dislikes more. Similarly to her, he's learning to associate it more normally, now that there's someone always around who doesn't abuse it.
He sits up on his elbows after a little while though. He really doesn't want to sleep again, and he doesn't want to get sleepy, and the quiet for even that little bit of time just now is more than enough. ] Are you going back to sleep?
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It is a very long while before he talks again, and when he does it's mumbled. Again. ]
I have nightmares. And sometimes I wake up and don't know where I am.
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Where do you think you are? [ Slow, leading questions. Baby steps to the problems. ]
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As for her, well. She's had 10 years to become very, very good at a facade of being well, and his presence has helped make that not entirely a front for the first time in that entire stretch. ] I mean it. If anyone thought less of you for this they'd be idiots. You're strong to have done this well.
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That's just another thing he doesn't know how to reply to though. He doesn't feel strong. He feels brittle, and loose, like all his screws and bolts have been undone just to the point of falling off, and too much rattling, too much exertion in any which way, will have him falling into parts on the floor. ] People are idiots anyway - they don't need to think that to fall into the category. [ So maybe that's deflection, but at least that's relatively normal from him. ]
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The fact that he feels like that and keeps going anyways? She thinks that's a pretty fair amount of strength right there. ] That's true. [ But she's not up for being deflected right now. ] I know you don't believe me, but the fact remains - you're still standing. And maybe it's shaky, but you are. That takes a lot.
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also he'd be mildly mortified by a seminar like that ]
It takes a lot more than it should. [ Ugh, god, this is. This is exhausting. This is exhausting and he's already in bed and good the cap is still on this bottle of water so there's nothing stopping him from taking advantage of the fact that they're sitting on his bed and letting himself just sort of fall backwards to lie on his back. ] Now I'm lying. I mean, reclining, not being untruthful. [ Although. Hah. But not in that moment, anyway. He's not tired, not to the point of sleeping, he's just tired in other senses. He'll sit back up in a little while, probably be up the rest of the night regardless of all this, because he can't process while he's asleep and he has quite a bit to process. ]
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then she'll do it in private and get them to talk to him so that he stops thinking like this.
There's a short pause, a space in which she just watches him with an expression that manages to achieve a fair amount of neutrality for the quiet compassion on it, and then she reaches out and starts running her hand through his hair. ] I can't make any promises, but. I'm going to do my best to help make it take less.
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That's probably going to keep him lying down a little longer though. Her touch is generally quite arresting, and he's not sure how it works that you can become addicted to something so simple, he just knows that it never feels like he';; be able to get enough of it. ] You do a lot in that respect as it is.
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Touch is a luxury, in some respects. Especially when you're them, and there are a very, very few people in the world that casual touch is acceptable from. She knows she will never be tired of him touching her. ] I'm glad. Maybe I can one-up myself though.
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Tony's still trying to get used to casual touch without expectation as something that can be considered 'normal'. He's not sure how to take it in that vein of things. ] Probably. I don't put much past you.
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Max and touch gets very complicated sometimes, because there are still moments all this time later when she becomes convinced that she's back in a cell, her mind creating people there with her just to keep her from completely losing it, and touch is how she remembers that she's not.
She could never touch them.
So touch is a means of reassurance of everything being okay, and touch that comes from care is a luxury that she's denied herself for a long time because there was no one she trusted enough to allow it who was also willing to allow themselves the danger of caring. It's almost never truly casual to her, but she's slowly learning to let it mean nothing in particular other than that she's happy he's here. She leans down to press her lips to his forehead, keeps running her hand through his hair as she sits back up. ] Totally shouldn't.
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He sits up on his elbows after a little while though. He really doesn't want to sleep again, and he doesn't want to get sleepy, and the quiet for even that little bit of time just now is more than enough. ] Are you going back to sleep?
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those are the shoulders she's rubbing look at those shoulders man
thank you for reminding me i would never have thought to look closely at his shoulders otherwise
i'm glad i could be of service!
i just bet you are :|
ily
ily too
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is this thread wrapping up too?
it could well be, yeah, they're likely just going to stay awake together i think?
and not do anything in particular, yeah, that's what i think too
so long as he stops being an ass :|
shhh he's still coping
that's a terrible method of coping tony
were you expecting a good one????
admittedly not really
thank you
you are welcome. and okay yes i think that's about it for this one